Subsidizing the haves
My graduate degree from IIT was subsidized by tax payers, which includes reader(s) of this blog. For this I am thankful and I do not in the least mind paying less for my education.
What I do not understand is the rationale behind the subsidy. Ostensibly, the reason is that IITians serve the nation (at least that’s what was inscribed on the institute building), however I don’t see how I or for that matter most of the IITians are serving the nation. A large percentage of IITians go abroad to pursue higher studies and more often than not remain there. Others switch to managerial side by doing MBA and are not related to any engineering. Even people like me who are working in India either in software or even their field of study are not in strict sense “serving” the nation.
When I work (I do not really work, but just for sake of argument, assume I do), I do it for the salary, my commitment to my company is limited to my compensation package, in other words, I work for purely mercenary motives. The result of any productive work that I accomplish is to bring profit for my employer(s). Therefore neither I nor my employer work to serve nation.
This can be said for any individual engaged in economic activity. In an indirect way ofcourse anything which brings prosperity to individuals serves the nation.
But the point remains that why public which doesn’t get any benefit from me should pay for my education.
Update: Hey Bhagwan ! Desipundit linked to me !
Anyway welcome Desipundit readers and please excuse the clutter and atrocious writing
Another Update: Oh! Do have a dekko around. Pretty please
19 comments:
You make several valid points, and it is a good post.
I think government subsidies have their benefits. Not all of them have to translate neccessarily in to what is thought of as tangible (hope they work for the government, stay in India and so on).
There are several intangibles here -
It provides a more level playing field for talented but economically underprivileged people, who might otherwise not be able to afford the tuition in IIT.
Take that subsidy away and it will have a deleterious effect on a few. Thereby taking away the promise that a good higher education provides a platform for a chance at a better life.
The government here is doing something for the common good.
Your point that the IIT grads move abroad or don't work in a govt agency or direct benefit of the nation is valid.
However the govt has an option of having the grads work for them or in nation building in return for an education there for a fixed period of time.
Getting rid of subsidies is in a way saying let the free market decide (set rates, tuitions). This goes to my point above about inequities.
Other intangibles are the education gives you a chance to excel at whatever you may choose to do, for which you are rewarded by a good pay and benefits. You pay taxes on that, spend it those benfits can then trickle back in to society.
That was my 2 cents..
As I always say, Tax the NRIs
Is it very clear that the country doesn't get back the money in the form of tax or by other means?
I think many NRIs contribute a lot to organizations like udavum karangaL.
What about subsidy according to economic background? Or do you think there are enough loan facilities available so that even the most economically backward
The best solution, if possible, would be, I think, to convince people that they can contribute much, much, more to organizations doing good work ( like udavum karangaL ) than they presently do - this is true for most people. This realization alone should make a big change ( as opposed to paying tax to the government, much of which might go totally waste ).
It's alright I guess if there is realization/honest admission (like yours) and if 1 out of 100 contribute "tangibly" to nation building. It's money well spent because otherwise, even the 1 who does contribute will help another country on its path to greater power.
Good post.
I think an average IITian pays more in taxes every year than what was offered as subsidy by the Indian government during the 4 years of the course.
Also fees at IITs are much higher than most other government engineering colleges. So why single out the IITs every time?
The subsidies don't directly go to offer education to the students. Much of it goes to support infrastructure for R&D which has little to do with an undergraduate education.
What about having a compulsory stint for a year or two at a government lab or centre? That would ensure at least some contribution, and people who enjoy the work can continue.
Folks
Thanks for response Here is my clarification.
1) Subsidies provides a more level playing field for talented but economically underprivileged people, who might otherwise not be able to afford the tuition in IIT.
"Economically Underprivileged" students get a fee waiver anyways,
But subsidy I am talking about is general and apply to all the students.
The double quotes are important
The fee waiver (or Merit Cum Means ScholarShip as it is called) is a sham, There were many students belonging to rich families in my bacth who mis-used this.
But yes some sort of initiative for poor students should be there and I am not contesting that, my question is why should I,who is not poor by any standard, be subsidized.
2)The govt has an option of having the grads work for them or in nation building.
3)What about having a compulsory stint for a year or two at a government lab or centre? That would ensure at least some contribution, and people who enjoy the work can continue.
4)if 1 out of 100 contribute "tangibly" to nation building
First What is nation building ?
Does nation building means that every IIT graduate has to be a Mohan Bhargava and work in village ?
My point is that if individuals are left to persue their own ambitions it helps the whole society. Nation can progress only if the individuals are ambitious and enterprising.
And what good will it do if a IIT grad has to work in PWD or Mazgoan Docks. Ultimately however genuis an IIT graduate is it is useless to expect miracle from him in a dysfunctional and failed system which our government is.
5)Tax the NRI
May be, but what about people like me who remain in India ?
Won't it be better if instead of subsidizing and taxing, there was no subsidy in the first place ?
6) Is it very clear that the country doesn't get back the money in the form of tax or by other means?
7)An average IITian pays more in taxes every year than what was offered as subsidy by the Indian government during the 4 years of the course.
I would have gone to IIT even if I had to pay 5 times, I would have ended up in the same job and have paid the same taxes, so what is benefit of subsidy to tax payers.
8) Also fees at IITs are much higher than most other government engineering colleges. So why single out the IITs every time?
Because I graduated from IIT ?
9) The subsidies don't directly go to offer education to the students. Much of it goes to support infrastructure for R&D which has little to do with an undergraduate education.
Fair enough, spending on R&D makes sense, subsidizing student does not.
Gawd, why the same old retarded moronc arguments?
1.There are good subsidies and bad subsidies. Educational subsidies are always good no matter what.
2.What else does the gov do with the money : do you think that the piddly few hundred crores even show up anywhere in the near-infinite guzzling of money by the Indian government? The amount is extremely small compared to all the zillion crores spent by the gluttonous bureaucracy and politicans on other entirely useless stuff.
3.IITs have earned huge returon on invesment just by their sheer contribution to Brand India. If you think Brand India has an equity of $100 billion today, at least 10% of that can be attributed to IITs thanks to their alumni doing well.
4.The most idiotic and asininne argument is the one about MBAs...arre bhai, is workingas an engineer the only bloody way to help India? Vinod Khosla, and IITian and an MBA created Sun Microsystems which created thousands of jobs in Bangalore : doesn't that count for anything? There are countless such examples : the current chief of the IMF is an IITian : doesn't that benefit India? You must look at the capacity created by IITs for *enabling* economic growth and enhancing India's power worldwide, why look at it from a very narrow minded perspective of "if you get a degree in subject X, that's what you must do all your life"? That's just so stupid beyond belief.
When I work (I do not really work, but just for sake of argument, assume I do), I do it for the salary, my commitment to my company is limited to my compensation package, in other words, I work for purely mercenary motives. The result of any productive work that I accomplish is to bring profit for my employer(s). Therefore neither I nor my employer work to serve nation.
This is idiocy par excellence. ?Yes, you do serve the nation, Mr Brainiac - by becoming a productive member of the society, by helping your company succeed so that it can create jobs and take some pressure off the economy. You also help by making your company into a globally competitive entity that brings in foreign exchange, which can then pay ofr buying oil from saudi Arabia which can then fuel further economic growth. Also, your money is either spent in buying stuff which creates more jobs or employing your cook/gardener/dhobi etc which creates more jobs or is saved in a bank which helps reduce interest rates, allowing businesses to borrow at cheap interest rates and compete against others from abroad.In fact, India's savings rate of about 27% is the biggest macroeconomic strength of the country. God, do they not even teach you ABC of economics? The best contribution any person can make to a society is by becoming productive and helping create wealth in ever so humble a capacity. Serving the nation is not the preserve of jholawallahs or working for the public sector companies and destorying tax-payer's hard-earned rupees. Please pick up an economics text book and educate yourself.
Anon,
Why are you so bitter with life ?
Regards
The IITs are subsidised so that the professors can really think about academics and not worry abut where to get the money to support their academics. I know what I am saying, because that is where most of my energy goes working in an unsubsidised place.
IIT students are supposed to be "wise" and "noble" and "thought leaders" and all that, and serve the country. That's the way the rule is. They aren't expected to move out of the country and work in mercenary ways! :-)
The students aren't doing their bit well, so hw will removal of subsidy help? Students will still go abroad and will still be mercenary. The profs will now also become mercenary and academics takes a backseat.
Yeah.. Being an IITian, I feel really f***ed up about this whole issue.. Im so pained at my friends leaving the country for further studies and not returning.. I hope the IITs take some rules to ensure that students dont run away from the country.. An obvious reason is because of the lack of post grad infrastructure in the country.. the govt shud do something about that!!.. But the IITs have taken a positive step in introducing the dual degree.. where in, i'll get both my UG and PG degree in a span of 5 years which really gives me no need to leave the country for post grad studies!!
Sri,
But why can't you make money and be noble at same time ?
Anon,
People wll always run. Ambition can not be stopped.
Are NRI's doing wrong by leaving?
This deserves a seperate post.
Regards
Sri,
But why can't you make money and be noble at same time ?
You mean, why can't you make money and do good academics/research at the same time?
Because they have conflicting goals. Making money involves running behind a "customer", making him "king" and be at his beck and call.
Being a good academician or researcher requires pursuing truth and speaking out the truth even if it hurts the "customer's" interests.
Sri,
Being noble doesn't neccessarily mean being in researhc or academics.
For me a carpanter or a plumber who works honestly is as noble as a professor.
Research always required money, before the advent of capitalism it was the patronage of kings and nobility which financed research, so even at that time there was nothing like complete freedom.
I prefer this situation, because worth of research is meausered by money, this is not perfect but this is the best we have.
Regards
As a faculty member, what I am most interested in is good academics and research. If there is also people putting their money behind my research, well and good.
From my experience, the Indian corporate is far too immature to understand the value of research. They'd rather want us to be sub-contractors for their projects providing cheap labour. Even big MNCs fail to understand the significance of putting money behind R&D.
There is also a danger that academics becomes answerable only to industry. Universities are public institutions. They are answerable to society at large. Industry may not be interested in a particular idea; but if the idea is worth exploring for the societal good, it has to be explored.
Sri,
As a software programmer I am interested in good programmes, but point is why should tax payers pay for it.
Regarding your comment about Indian industry, it is because of highly protected socialist environment that Indian industry is not aware of advantages of research.
However, this will change as further reform and globalization will cause increased competition.
Untill that happend I do agree that Government will have to intervene.
Ultimately MNCs will invest if they see that there is benefit in it. Already MNCs like GE, MicroSoft, Intel, TE have invested huge amount, I think that it is bound to increase.
Regarding social good, who decides what is good for society?
Please mind, this is not just for rhetoric as public money is being spent on what is decided as social good.
Is it such a bad thing if academics is answerable to Industrty? The alternative to that is that reasearch will decided by some bureaucrat,who having no stake in the issue will decide according to his whims, need for favours or how much money has passed. In US most of reaseach is market driven (or defense driven) and as far as I know it works just fine.
Regards
Who decides about what is good for the public? The public, of course. That is why we need education and research institutions that are run by public money.
Education is much much more than good programming. If industry is interested only in good programmers (which they seem to be now), who tells them that there is a bigger world and tomorrow's needs may change, and that we need to be prepared for that?
If subsidy means government paying for something, what is wrong with taking money from the government as well as from industries? Let the public -- the society at large -- have a say as do industries in how educational institutions are run. By taking away government support, we are in effect taking away the public voice.
If the public feels that we need more research into predicting earthquakes, while the industry feels that we need more J2EE programmers, who should academicians listen to? The former, of course.
Hi
last night a friend and I had a long conversation on the same topic. I need to get to the ministry of education and find out how much does the government actually pay for the four years of an IIT student. how much of it is subsidised and how much they actually pay.
Can the government quantify what it gets back from these students.
I was giving this frind an example of how a mutinational company sending u on a scolarship to study further, anywhere, makes you sign a bond that you will work with them for a certain number of years.
Shouldnt the government stop its philanthropic act and start doing that. And I agree with u that it is after all the tax payers money which is being used by students who dont give back anyhting to the nation. Why should I be paying for anyone elses education.
The government, if it does put that clause of working in India for a certain number of years, it can actually ask IIT-ians to work with PSU's and other government bodies for those number of years. This would also help our sick PSU units get some good expertise/manpower.
Post a Comment